The importance of tolerance and understanding

Devotee: Why do we mostly pray to the Divine Mother as a group rather than Divine Father? Is the Divine Mother better for us at this [present] time? Why is it like this?

Guru: Now can I pose a problem to you?

Devotee: Yes, please.

Guru: If you had a problem who would you go to?

Devotee: Father….no to mother, yes, yes it’s right!

Guru: Because your mother has carried you in her womb and there is an umbilical cord that, although it’s severed, creates a special relationship with you for she has given birth to life. The Father may be very nice, he’s a banker (for example), and he can supply you with all the funds, but yet when there’s a real problem you run to your mother and say, “Ma, here I am, I’m in terrible trouble, please help.” At the same time, you must not forget the male aspect which is very much a part of the duality within ourselves.  You think you are female or male, but you are a duality.

A balance between the masculine and feminine within is important

You have both inside you. That good balance enables you to be gentle. Can you imagine a man here who is masculine, ninety percent masculine? You would hate to look at him because he would be so gross in his mannerisms. It’s because there is a refinement in the balance of a man and a woman that you can interact with each other.

[Similarly, imagine] if there was a woman who identified herself completely with the male aspect within she walks along with long breeches and two guns by her side. That is the attitude of a lot of women today for their liberation movement.  They have lost the most wonderful power that they have. You are a woman. You have a magic potion that can tantalise man. Use it! You throw that overboard and you are in dead trouble.

Devotee: It must be in balance.

Guru: It will be in balance, it must be in balance. Men don’t like to show the female aspect of themselves, they always want to show how masculine they are.  That’s a part of the nature of man. My advice to all the women is to say no matter how wonderfully manly he is see the soft side of him, and butter him up.

Devotee: Butter?

Swami: It’s a very English expression.

Guru: Yes, there is a sweetness in man. Why don’t you want to get that? If you have a good balance in your marital life then you can be very successful in your spiritual life as well because one will be complementary to the other. One without the other just doesn’t work well.

Devotee: A big part of our society is homosexual. Do you think that homosexuality is a kind of board/bridge towards spirituality because you are not involved in family life? Because usually somebody has to bring up a family, and only afterward you can have your spiritual life as you say. But homosexual people cannot have a family. Is that an invitation towards spirituality?

Guru: Well we have to try to teach people that they have a difficult life to learn how to cope with the demands that are made by the senses and how to master them. You have to teach people from an early age when they are little children growing up, that there’s a duality in them so sometimes one aspect of that duality will make more demands than the other.

We put tags on people who have those feelings and either we condemn it or we have some element of understanding.  The understanding is that the balances [of duality] in the human being have become a little bit more [masculine or feminine] and so they express that desire.

The prettiest girls from Germany came to see Swami and me and we were talking. They were being pretty honest with us and said, “Do you know, my brothers always wanted to be girls and we wanted to be boys. We thought that would be the best thing that could happen to us because we had a wonderful feeling inside [when we thought about what it would feel like] if we could be boys.”

This desire exists and sometimes it is carried to the point of having a sexual interaction with the same gender. But understanding and education are important rather than condemning. I don’t like condemning anybody.  

I like to see the background of people to look at their lives. You would find that in their early youth there were some aberrations [for example] of lack of love or the mother may have overpowered the lifestyle of the son and the son adopted more feminine aspects because he has become very mother oriented. There are so many psychological factors that you have to take into consideration. Also, the imbalance of the body’s hormones that make up the male and female sometimes makes it very difficult but essentially we have to have understanding.

No need to categorise people

Ok, what about lesbians? What about the other people who have different approaches in life? Are you going to be so ruthless and turf them out of their livelihoods because you don’t like them?

Then you slowly graduate into narrowing the whole family of the world into just an exclusive group of people who you like or you do not like, and, and you approve or you disapprove, and here begins a lot of dissension with yourself.

You then say to yourself, “Now we have excluded the people who have got AIDS. We will isolate them in a camp far away in the mountains so that nobody can have access to them. Then you go to the next stage and say, “There are people who have got tuberculosis, we will put them in that mountain.”  Then you put another group of people on another mountain because they have got another disease.

By the time you have finished, you’re on a dangerous journey, because you have put people into various categories and not for once questioned what makes a human being as they are. It is because of his frailty in his nature. He’s evolving all the time. Nothing is permanent.

If you sit down with somebody who has a particular way of life you can ask them if they are really satisfied with their life. For example, if you ask a married couple, “Are you happy? Is this what you want?” [They will say] “No, no I want a change of partner now, I’ve been with this partner for ten years, seven years, twelve years,” and it goes on like that.

Swami and I went to the states and I saw about two hundred people in that time I spent in the States, nearly one week. I never heard anything so mad. I couldn’t believe that such a complete contrast to marital life existed, as in the States.  I couldn’t believe it.

The most beautiful woman came to see me and she was really beautiful. She had photographs [of her family and friends with her] and she had a lovely daughter who was equally beautiful. She was very rich. She had come from L.A. and she was living in Big Bear.

I said, “What can I do?” She said, “Well, I’m married but I want to leave my husband.” I said, “Really? What for?” “I’ve found another man, he’s got more money and he lives very nearby to where I live.” I said, “May I have a look at your pictures first?” So she brought me the two pictures and I looked at each one. I said, “So, that’s your husband and that’s your boyfriend and you want to give up him for him. Why do you want to give him up? He’s a lovely person, he’s got a lovely nature, he’s a superb human being.” She said, “No, he’s getting a little bit bald. I’d rather have a man that isn’t bald.” I said, “He’s more ugly than the other person who is your husband.”

So we had this dialogue going for a little while. Then she said, “Well, I can live in the centre with my husband on the right and my boyfriend on the left.” I looked at her (the photo of the daughter) and said, “What about her?” She said, “Oh she likes both of them.” So I thought well that’s another lifestyle. So you know not only are you being educated but I am also being educated in the most amazing way to life.

I’ll share another amusing part of that journey. Two women came to see me. One of them said, “We are lesbians.” I said, “Good.” She said, “But my girlfriend wants a baby.” I said, “What? Are you telling me that you want a baby with your girlfriend?” She said, “No, she’s found a boyfriend, and I’m willing to look after the child once it is born.” 

I said, “Really? What have you decided? You talked about it to your girlfriend?” I can tell you, be a guru! We have amazing entertainment. You have to have a sense of humour and ultimately I said talk it over with your girlfriend and that is my solution to your problem.

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